Do Many People Have Forgiveness Issues?
Why pride is one of the biggest reasons why people will not forgive
Bart Blair: Do you think that there are many people who have a forgiveness issue?
Toni Hebel: I do believe there are many people who have a forgiveness issue. Because if they didn't, they would forgive. But most people don't. I just received a letter yesterday from a lady in response to a blog post we sent out who said, "Don't bring this up to me. I'm trying, we're doing our best. The world's doing their best to forgive and so don't hold us accountable to that." That was a red flag to me, that forgiveness was an issue with her so much so that it would spark in her a defense, which tells me that she has an issue with it.
Bruce Hebel: I jokingly often say the only people who don't need what we teach are the ones who've never been wounded. So if you've been wounded, you probably have a forgiveness struggle, because when we get hurt we want people to pay. Somebody has got to make it right. It's so hard for people to grab a hold of that. I also think there's a lot of confusion that circles around what forgiveness is and what it isn't. We've addressed that in other questions that we've answered in other ways, but forgiveness is basically applying the blood of Jesus as payment in full for every wound I ever have or will suffer. It's recognizing that the debt that was incurred by the wound has already been paid.
Most people think to themselves, “Okay, I'm just going to have to absorb the cost.” It's almost like we view this as an installment plan. There's a debt and I can't just erase it all. I just can't forgive it all now. But I'll forgive a little bit of this and maybe after six months or a year or three years or twenty-seven years it'll finally be okay. But that's just not the way it works.
Toni Hebel: There are so many lies all around this whole issue of forgiveness. Some people believe that when you forgive, you're saying it didn't matter. Well, no, it did matter. Christ had to die for it so it definitely mattered. Forgiveness never says what they did was okay. It just says it was paid for. Also forgiveness never says that it's up to you to make the reconciliation happen. It's not on you to do that. Forgiveness and reconciliation aren't the same thing. Basically forgiveness is between us and God. And when we forgive, the other person is in God's hands. We've transferred their debt to the cross and so it's out of our hands. Reconciliation is not a proof that we have forgiven, but so many people won't forgive because they believe that's somehow involved and it really isn't.
Bruce Hebel: I guess the bottom line question is, if I'm looking at someone and I see that they have torment, they're dealing with depression, they're dealing with anxiety, they're dealing with anger issues, they've got old wounds they just will not let go of. They talk about it all the time. They're kind of slanderous in the way they talk about people, they put people down. All these control issues—
Toni Hebel: Fear.
Bruce Hebel: Fear. They're just dominated by fear. That's an indication to me that it's an unforgiveness issue. Unfortunately, people don't associate that — although Matthew 18 does and many other places in the New Testament does — so we try to help people recognize this real core issue is unforgiveness. When you choose to forgive, you get free. If you don't, you don't get free.
Toni Hebel: Yeah, so that's what we think.
Bruce Hebel: So the answer is, yeah, we see lots of people.
Bart Blair: I'm going to ask you a follow up question to that. How much do you think that pride plays a part in a person's unwillingness to forgive?
Bruce Hebel: One hundred percent! Pride is the core issue behind all sin. Adam and Eve sinned against God in the Garden of Eden. The serpent stroked their pride and so pride is at the core. "I can make it work. It's up to me. I get to make the determination. I get to decide." My pride says, "I'm so important that I'm not going to let this go. I'm more valuable. My needs are more valuable than the blood of Jesus and then, in turn, God." So when we don't forgive, we're saying we're a little higher than God in this because God is accepting the blood of Jesus as payment in full, but I'm not. I think there's a lot of pride in it. What do you think, babe?
Toni Hebel: We find that people that we meet with, the ones that get free, are the ones whose hearts are open. Humility is what opens your heart. It's basically saying, "I need help here. I can't do this. There's nothing in me, what I've tried all this time isn't working." But those who have pride, obviously their hearts are closed. That's the door that closes their hearts. Those are the people that walk away without freedom because they think they've already forgiven. It's clear that there is an issue.
Bruce Hebel: When I don't forgive, it's about what they did to me and where's the focus? It's about me. But when we really understand the Gospel, then our focus is not on us, it's on what Jesus did for us and what Jesus did for those that wound us. Our focus becomes upon Jesus and becomes upon them. We see that with the whole blessing protocol. Because once we choose to forgive, we validate the forgiveness by blessing. We no longer want them to pay us, it's not about us anymore, we now want God to bless them. Because vengeance says it's about me, what do I get out of this? True forgiveness says it's really about Jesus and what he can do for them. So how can I be an agent, having been blessed with the grace of God in my life, how can I be an agent of blessing to someone else? So it changes the focus from me to them. Actually through the Cross to them.
Bart Blair: Now, if I was harboring resentment and unforgiveness, how would I know that pride was my issue?
Toni Hebel: You would know that pride is your issue if you are unable to admit where you are. If you're unable to say, "This hurt me and it's not okay, but Jesus paid for it." If you're not able to open your heart and literally forgive those wounds that took place against you, if you're not able to do that because your image is more important, it's the way you look and how you present yourself that's most important—
Bruce Hebel: What will people think about me?
Toni Hebel: What will people think about me if I say that this hurt and I need to lay it at the cross? Instead, you get real and you become authentic. People that aren't authentic and that want to look like they have it all together and not deal with really what's going on are people whose hearts are closed and pride is clearly keeping that door shut.
Bruce Hebel: I remember one family we were working with — it's a high profile family — and the patriarch of the family came in and I worked with him and he got really, really close to forgiving. But at the end of the day, he looked at me and he just said, "I've got too much pride in my pocket to forgive." He walked away but his family got free because they forgave. Finally, I think he passed away of a heart attack I think, but he lived the rest of his days still in his bitterness. So I'm not sure if that's the answer, but you see it when the focus is on you. That's how you know. It's about you.
Toni Hebel: Also, recognize that you were wounded by somebody because they're hurting and they need freedom. So the faster you can forgive them and put their wounds at the cross and then bless them by asking God to come in and become freedom for them, the faster they can heal. Have compassion on them because you see why and how they got to where they are! If you can't do that, then pride is directing you. Humility is who we need to direct us, just like Christ was humble and he forgave. He's our example.
Bruce Hebel: And in Matthew 18, there is a lot of pride in the first servant not forgiving the second servant the small debt when he himself had been forgiven the insurmountable debt. Again, it's a focus on what I need, what I want, what my needs are, and not looking at the needs of somebody else.
