Do deeper wounds take longer to heal?
Is there a difference between a soft wound and a deep wound?
Bruce Hebel: The deeper wounds, do they take longer to heal? Can we recover? Is there a difference between a soft wound and a deep wound? The answer is very simple and complicated at the same time. No, it doesn't really take longer to heal because the healing comes with the blood of Jesus applying over in the salve. And it's transformative. In the same way, when someone puts their faith in Christ, immediately they're transformed out of the darkness into the light. Out of death into life. It's instantaneous, whether it's a shallow wound or a deep wound, however we want to phrase that. But I think the other question that comes in which complicates it, is that if it's a deep wound and if it's a long standing deep wound, why does it affect how we relate to other people? It affects how we live. In some ways—
Toni Hebel: It defines us.
Bruce Hebel: It defines us and so we live our identity out of that. Some people don't know how to live without the wound. So it's not necessarily a healing issue — that's instantaneous with the Lord. The tormentors leave. It's learning to live differently in the same way when you come to faith, you've got to learn to live differently. You're different, but you've got to learn to live out of that reality. I call it muscle memory. We have a muscle memory that our woundedness and the way we've lived out of that and identified ourselves with that woundedness has given us this reaction to people when they say and do and —
Toni Hebel: We become very protective when we're wounded deeply. So what realm that's in is different for everybody. How they were wounded is different. But we become very guarded, we can be. And when we get free through the blood of Jesus, it's a miraculous thing that takes place just like salvation. When we get free of that, there is a...well, a lot of people have explained it to me as I've led them through forgiveness, as I've been coaching them, that the walls come down. That they see the walls all around their heart just come down and they no longer feel the need to protect themselves. I remember when I got free, I remember the deep wound I forgave that day at a lake on my back. God led me there. And the joy and peace and the freedom I received when I forgave, led by the Lord, was so amazing that I came home and told Bruce. I said, "Anybody can hurt me and do anything they want to to me because I have the solution. I now know how to deal with this." I had no reservation anymore about being wounded because I got so free. It just wasn't there.
I think also when it comes to this whole deep and shallow wound thing, if we're discussing the comparison of that, many people believe their shallow wounds are the deep wounds. They come to us with what we would call the surface things going on in their life presently. And those really aren't the issue. The issue is so deep that they don't even remember it or they don't even know it's there or they don't recognize it. They excuse it. They've pushed it down, whatever. It's so important to get to the root of what is causing the issue today, the root that happened years ago. And we have some ways in which we do that. I think a lot of the time anyhow, people don't want to go back to deal with the deepest wound because it's so painful. But we find that it's very important to do that in order to receive your freedom. So a question you can ask yourself is, "Who wounded me the deepest or the greatest or the most in my life? And what did they do? Lord, please reveal that."
Bruce Hebel: Spinning around to the original question, what we actually find, which may surprise a lot of people, is that most people, when they find those deep wounds, they walk out radically free and it's done and they don't really have to go back. But there are certain people that have been so identified with it that they have to learn to think differently and remind themselves that they have forgiven and remember the joy that came when they did. That is a pretty heavy motivator not to go back there, because that involves torment. This involves joy. I think it is pretty instantaneous. It's just there's a mindset out there that believes that it's going to take a while. And so we've got to deal with that mindset in order to get back and say, "No the cross actually works. It works really, really instantaneously fast."
Bart Blair: Let me ask you a follow up question to that. Something that you said really resonated with me, and that is that oftentimes people will define themselves by their deep wounds. Sometimes it's conscious, sometimes it's subconscious. But they've carried a wound for a very long time—
Bruce Hebel: More often subconscious.
Bart Blair: Yeah. And that wound has defined them. It's shaped the way that they interact with others. Marriage relationships, parent-child relationships, with their friends. When I've gotten to a point where I realized that I have this deep wound that I'm ready to forgive and I forgive the person who wounded me, but I've been defined for so long by that woundedness, what are some practical things that I can do to actually change my mind and change my behaviors as it relates to the way that I've defined myself for such a long time?
Bruce Hebel: Well, I think the way that we redefine ourselves is to rethink ourselves. We have to begin to think not as we typically have thought about ourselves, but to think what Jesus thinks about us. And I think one of the things we've taught and it's really a freeing thing, part of our message that we teach, is that we separate the person from the action. Jesus never let the offense determine whether he'd forgive someone because he separated the person from the sin so he could be restored to a relationship with the person while dealing with the sin. We have to stop defining ourselves as a victim. I think one of the dangers of even the MeToo movement that's out there is, "Me too, I'm a victim. I'm a victim. I'm a victim." Now, that doesn't mean you haven't been wounded, but you're not a victim.
If you're in Christ, you're perfect and righteous in him. One of the biggest struggles, not just in this question, but even in the Christian life as a whole is learning to see ourselves as God sees us and begin viewing ourselves as God views us. I'm not a victim. I'm a victor. We are constantly led in triumph in Christ Jesus, according to Paul in 2 Corinthians 2. We are more than conquerors! We didn't win the battle, He won the battle, but we won it in Him, so we're free in Him. By changing the way we view our woundedness to where we now view ourselves as whole in Christ, it changes how we live. It does. It changes how we relate to other people and ourselves. Our whole demeanor shifts. I think that's really important to understand. The blood of Jesus not only covered their sin, it transformed me from death into life.
Toni Hebel: Right. I agree. There's just really nothing more to say about that other than I think the greatest thing we can do is live in self-forgetfulness. Because when we're focused on ourselves, then we're focusing on the wrong thing. And living Christ, abiding in him, focusing on him, what does he say about us? What does he believe? When we accepted Christ, we were put in him and everything changed. I mean, we have become new creatures and we need to recognize other people are the same. And yet they wounded us out of their woundedness. And we don't have to adopt that. We don't have to take that in. We can detach from that and say it's not part of me, it's not who I am. I'm not going to listen to the lie of the enemy that says that's who I am. And it's intentional. And it's really focusing on who Jesus is and what he says about us.
Bruce Hebel: One of the core spiritual truths that we base our lives on is the fact that when we come to Christ, the Christian life is not learning and working our way up to what God wants us to be. It's learning to live out the reality of who God has already declared us to be. The more I lean on who God says I am, the more I'm learning to live out the reality of that. So to go back to the original question, when I realized I have forgiven and I'm free from that wound that was way deep, way, way in my early childhood and I get free, I'm feeling freedom now. I just need to remind myself every day or maybe multiple times a day that I forgive and I'm free. I'm righteous, I'm holy, God has already done this. I'm now learning to live out, by the Holy Spirit, the reality of who he's made us to be. So again, it comes back to understanding who we are and changing the way we think. And our thinking will change our behavior and the outworking of it.
Toni Hebel: I know for me, sometimes I will ask the Lord, "will you please give me your perspective on this? Will you help me to see this through your eyes? What are you doing with this situation, something that wounded me deeply?" Invariably, he will remind me of what he did in me through the situation. So I am changed, I am more Christlike because of what I went through. I have more strength or I have more freedom through forgiveness. So I will thank him — like this is my practical way of getting through when a memory comes up — I will thank him for what he did in that situation in my life. I will turn that negative situation into praise, asking God, "how can I see this in a positive light? How can I turn this around to praise You for it?" And I will praise Him for that. If there's a specific person that comes to mind, I will ask God to give me compassion for them and whatever is going on in their life at the moment. I will ask God to bless them and I'll be specific on how I want them blessed. I won't let the enemy try to pull me back. Most of the time. I will turn the situation to praise and turn the situation into blessing them so that they can receive what I have and be willing to share that with them if God would bring that opportunity up.
Bruce Hebel: So it's a choice. Who do I believe? Do I believe what I'm hearing in my flesh from the enemy speaking to me? Or do I believe what Jesus says about me, what the Holy Spirit is saying to me? And where's my focus? Again, it's your focus.
